203 price gouging

[22900013A]

Don't forget the tyre width remains the same, it will just be a little less pinched in its inner section. On a Land Rover the steering lock is affected by how fat the hubs will turn, which is limited mechanically, and then by how close you want the tyre outer edge to come to the springs/chassis.

I don't doubt that in a lab you could find some minute difference in lock or turning circle or something, but in the real world...all series motors have pretty poor lock.

None of this goes any way towards explaining just why a single rim of this nature can cost the same as a small car with an MOT however...

[fuckwit]

It could be me but, irrespecitive of the individual vehicle, when all else is eqaul, by increasing the track on a steered end of a vehicle, you will tighten the turning circle - you acheive the same effect in reducing the track of the non-steered end. Tyre width whether bicycle rims, or rims as wide as road-rollers, it'll make no difference, because its the geometry you changed. Of course if your bicycle rims have huge offset over your road-rollers, you've again increased the track, centre-line to centre-line, so again increased the track. But if road-roller and bicycle rim have the same offset, so no change in geometry narrow or wide nothigng changes.

So back to our application, if the tyre/rim fouls something, so we are unable to touch our steering-wheel to tigthen the lock becaseu of this, but still widen our track,we have changed the geometry so we must to some degree be changing the turning-circle. So put a dozen wheel-spacers on each side of your steered end, with skinny or wide tyres, it matters not, and you tighten your TC without touching your steering-wheel.

As an added bonus, assuming you've not got to the limits of yoru steering-box, because your rims are now four foot outside of your wheel arches, tyres are not fouling anything so you'll also be able to get another turn on your steering-wheel. So a tighter TC still.

On the rear if you wnat to fit just one supermarket trolley wheel, under the rear diff, it can be as wide as you like. Hence, if you want, one road-roller wheel under the diff, and narrow bike wheels on massive spacers at the steered-end, you'll have the world's tightest turning One ton. But if you could put the road-roller rim on the front and the bicycle wheel on the back, and you'll not turn any tighter.

Don't believe me? Leave the front alone completely. Now remove your rear rims, put only a supermarket trolley wheel under you rear diff. You will now have a tighter turniing circle. Change that supermarket trolley wheel for something wider but still centred under the the rear diff and can you see the base-geometry has not changed? Try this with your kids' Meccano or Lego. This works.

Now I love my 109, but an 88 will turn a fair bit tighter. So shorten or lengthen the wheelbase too. See what effect that has on your One Ton.. And Yes i know, I've got you to wreck your wagon by now;)

[DasLandRoverMan]

There's entire books to read on the subject of suspension and steering geometry...

It's an interesting subject once you start to understand how it all works and how doing A will have effect on B, C, D and R, whilst altering C will achieve the same effect but only alter what happens with B.

Castor, Camber, Kingpin Inclination, Ackerman angle etc are all terms it helps to have a good understanding of, and once you do you'll realise the standard Land Rover setup is something of a compromise to suit a production environment.

It makes you laugh even more when you realise just how far out of whack people leave their coil sprung motors when doing silly suspension lifts and other such tomfoolery in the name of 'off road performance', and how many people are making good money selling stuff that alters more than the one variable they claim in effort to 'sort all the problems caused by doing X'.

That's more of an essay than I was planning on typing.

[Trebro]

I trial a series 3 with 203's on the front and standard rims on the rear, the difference in lock to a standard lwb rim is very noticeable. However even a couple of mm when on full lock magnifies into a big difference and lessens the frustration of trialing a series on courses set up primarily for 90's

I could achieve the same result with white spokes or a modern steel rim with a 4" offset (4" is the max offset allowed under alrc rules) but they would look out of place on the series, I could live with out of place if it was going to cost me £500 for a pair though!

I bought my set about 4 years ago , even then at £300 for four I thought I was paying through the nose......

[fuckwit]

I had wondered at the 'real-world' worth in wider track at the front for trials, and at last I see a piccy that verifies what i was guessing. so thank you for troubling to put this info up. I suppose I just like to know this kinda sh*t - I feel the need to fill my head with something.

DasLandRoverMan: You're so 'kin right. The amount of time and money spent on that variety of homoerotic tat makes me wonder if those knuckle-draggers ever went to school. And if they did, why? Was it money well spent?
Could have put 'em all in a sandpit with 2-3 Tonka toys, and given the rest of us 'kin decent education.
[I'm in my uncharitable grump this day, ignore me]